{"id":316,"date":"2018-05-18T18:37:48","date_gmt":"2018-05-18T18:37:48","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/lewiscar.sites.grinnell.edu\/SexInAmericanHistory\/?p=316"},"modified":"2018-05-18T19:16:39","modified_gmt":"2018-05-18T19:16:39","slug":"gals-gays-and-geeks-the-relationship-between-gay-men-and-straight-women","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/lewiscar.sites.grinnell.edu\/SexInAmericanHistory\/uncategorized\/gals-gays-and-geeks-the-relationship-between-gay-men-and-straight-women\/","title":{"rendered":"Gals, Gays, and Geeks: The Relationship Between Gay Men and Straight Women"},"content":{"rendered":"

Abstract<\/strong><\/p>\n

Please note: this podcast includes strong language, including slurs. Listener discretion is advised.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n

In this podcast, we discuss representations of gay men in the media and how straight women react to and embody the identities of gay men. The reason that there exists such a term as \u201cfag hag\u201d is that the phenomenon of straight female\/gay male friendship is so widespread and widely remarked upon. In addition, the existence of slash fiction further demonstrates straight women\u2019s obsession with gay men. In a time before the widespread acceptance of homosexuality, fan fiction was an important outlet for homoeroticism. The podcast traces the history of gay male representations and their relationship to straight women, why women and gay men form relationships, and how these identities and relationships are negotiated.<\/span><\/p>\n

Bios<\/strong><\/p>\n

Jessica Daly\u00a0<\/strong>is a fourth-year Theatre and Dance major from Chicagoland. She would like to extend a personal thanks to her (gay) best friend from high school, Justin, for tolerating her “hag” phase with grace. After graduation, she will work in the artistic department of a regional theatre company.<\/p>\n

Nicole Rosengurt<\/strong> studies Art History and Political Science and is in her 2nd year at Grinnell College. After spending her high school years deep in the twilight haze of the internet, and falling in love with multiple gay men, she realized there might be more at play than meets the eye. When she isn\u2019t investigating the politics of fandoms and friendships, Nicole works on publishing the Grinnell Underground Magazine, and participates in theatre and dance productions. <\/span><\/p>\n

Lillie Westbrook<\/strong> is a first-year student at Grinnell College. Although she has not yet declared a major, she had held a lifelong interest in history. Following in the footsteps of her mother and her grandmother, Lillie spent her adolescence in the company of dweebs and gays. <\/span><\/p>\n

Credits<\/strong><\/p>\n

The song that introduces and concludes the podcast is “Fag Hag” by Lily Allen.<\/p>\n

Special thanks to Prof. Lewis and Gina Donovan!<\/p>\n

Bibliography<\/strong><\/p>\n

Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys: True Tales of Love, Lust, and Friendship Between Straight Women and Gay Men,\u00a0<\/em>edited by\u00a0Melissa de la Cruz and Tom Dolby. New York, NY: Plume, 2007.<\/p>\n

The Woman’s World: Volumes 1-2<\/em>, edited by Oscar Wilde. New York, NY: Source Book Press, 1888. https:\/\/books.google.com\/books?id=JFcCAAAAIAAJ<\/a><\/p>\n

Spockanalia<\/em>, no. 2-3 (1968), edited by Sherna Comerford and Devra Michele Langsam. Accessed April 1, 2018.\u00a0http:\/\/oaktrust.library.tamu.edu\/handle\/1969.1\/157233\u00a0<\/a> https:\/\/oaktrust.library.tamu.edu\/handle\/1969.1\/157234<\/a><\/p>\n

Maria F. Fackler and Nick Salvato. “Fag Hag: A Theory of Effeminate Enthusiasms.”\u00a0Discourse<\/em> 34, no. 1 (2012): 59-92.<\/p>\n

Eric M. Russell, Danielle J. DelPriore, Max E. Butterfield, and Sarah E. Hill. “Friends with Benefits, but Without the Sex: Straight Women and Gay Men Exchange Trustworthy Mating Advice.”\u00a0Evolutionary Psychology\u00a0<\/em>11, no. 1 (2013): 132-147.<\/p>\n

Dawne Moon. “Insult and Inclusion: The Term Fag Hag and Gay Male ‘Community.'”\u00a0Social Forces<\/em> 74, no. 2 (1995): 487-510.<\/p>\n

Nicola Evans. “A Becoming Amplitude: Fag Hags and Gay Men in Fiction and in Theory.”\u00a0Discourse\u00a0<\/em>21, no. 2 (1999): 21-46.<\/p>\n

Mark S. Rosenbaum, Eric M. Russell, and Rebekah Russell-Burrnett. “‘I’ll wait for him’: Understanding when female shoppers prefer working with gay male sales associates.”\u00a0Journal of Retailing and Consumer Services<\/em> 36 (2017): 172-179.<\/p>\n

Catherine Salmon and Don Symons. “Slash Fiction and Human Mating Psychology.”\u00a0The Journal of Sex Research\u00a0<\/em>41, no. 1 (2004): 94-100.<\/p>\n

P. J. Falzone. “The Final Frontier is Queer:\u00a0Aberrancy, Archetype and Audience Generated Folklore in K\/S Slashfiction.”\u00a0Western Folklore<\/em> 64, no. 3\/4 (2005): 243-261.<\/p>\n

Patricia Frazer Lamb and Diana L. Veith. “Romantic Myth, Transcendence, and\u00a0Star Trek\u00a0<\/em>Zines.”\u00a0In\u00a0The Fan Fiction Studies Reader, <\/em>edited by\u00a0Karen Hellekson & Kristina Busse.\u00a0Iowa City, IA: University of Iowa Press, 2014.<\/p>\n

Daniel Allington. “‘How Come Most People Don’t See It?’: Slashing the Lord of the Rings.<\/em>”\u00a0Social Semiotics<\/em> 17, no. 1 (2007): 43-62.<\/p>\n

Transcript<\/strong><\/p>\n

L: This is Lillie,<\/p>\n

N: This is Nicole,<\/p>\n

J: This is Jessica.<\/p>\n

L: It\u2019s May 14th<\/sup>, 2018<\/p>\n

N: We are in Grinnell College.<\/p>\n

J: Trigger Warning: we are going to use a lot of homophobic slurs in this podcast.<\/p>\n

*Music*<\/p>\n

L: Fruit fly<\/p>\n

J: Flame Dame<\/p>\n

N: Fagatina<\/p>\n

L: Homo-honey<\/p>\n

J: Swish-dish<\/p>\n

N: Fagnet \u2013 Fag plus magnet<\/p>\n

L: Fag-hag<\/p>\n

L: I first heard the term\u201d fag-hag\u201d when my mother used it to refer to herself. My grandmother, sitting at the same dinner table applied it to herself, and then when I told my best friend Will who also happened to be gay, the term was also applied to me. The term \u201cfag-hag\u201d wasn\u2019t always used affectionately by women to [\u2026] talk about their habit of being friends with gay men. In the 70s, the gay community used the term to define ungainly women intruding into the gay world who were apparently trying to seduce gay men. They were seen as a threat; sometimes, women would try to seduce gay men in an effort to turn them the \u201cright\u201d way, the \u201cstraight way\u201d.<\/p>\n

J: These tensions mirrored similar tensions between the feminist movement and the budding queer studies movement.<\/p>\n

N:\u00a0 There was a worry that if discussing the fag-hag would either necessitate turning away from the gay male subject of study, or if it would be a another problematic way to define women through their service to men.\u00a0 It was used as an insult to punish anyone who didn\u2019t feel the same form of contempt for marginalized groups like gay men as society said they ought to feel. However, today, the \u201cfag-hag\u201d has gotten more positive representation in shows like \u201cWill & Grace\u201d. The term \u201cfag-hag\u201d can now be used to describe women who substitute gay \u201cboyfriends\u201d in their life for problematic, heteronormative attachments to other straight men. But, this is also seen as a threat to the heteronormative world, not just to the gay world. The bond between a straight woman and a gay man goes against social orders and is a betrayal of their respective genders and sexualities. We ask: why do straight women have such an affinity for gay men? They draw on a common set of gestures and attitudes and behaviors both in their intimate relationships and in their consumer lives. They bond over a shared anti-masculinity going towards what is tender, and affectionate, and aesthetic.<\/p>\n

J: Research suggests there may be an evolutionary advantage to these such relationships. According to an article in Evolutionary Psychology, gay men and straight women are more likely to trust each other\u2019s dating advice than any other demographic. The researchers speculate that this is the result of the lack of competition over potential partners, couples with the absence of the threat of unwanted sexual advances, giving the \u201cfag-hag\u201d and her fag a unique bond.<\/p>\n

L: For my family, the term \u201cfag-hag\u201d was just a descriptor, something that just relayed our experiences with gay men and our deep friendships that we held with them. I never thought about the implications of us women using the term fag, especially before I realized my own queerness. In high-school, the term \u201cgay best friend\u201d rose in popularity; it was reflected a lot in media. Kind of like the \u201cfag-hag\u201d phenomenon, \u201cgay best friend\u201d was the same experience told from the woman\u2019s point of view.<\/p>\n

N: A lot has been said about the point of view of women who want to be close with gay men. The \u201cfag-hag\u201d has been described as a gay man trapped in a woman\u2019s body. Another theory that\u2019s been posited from the man\u2019s point of view is that gay men hung out with straight women because they themselves were half-women that desired to be normal men. But what came first? The fag or the hag? Does the fag emulate the hag? Or, does the hag seek in the fag what she can\u2019t get from a straight man?<\/p>\n

L: There\u2019s a psychological advantage towards the relationships among gay men and women. In a study by Eric M. Russel, William Leeks, and Vivian P. Ta at the University of Texas at Arlington, it showed that women who interacted with gay men became universally more comfortable in their interactions once they discovered that the men were gay. This is especially true among attractive women. The study claimed that the women who were more attractive were more comfortable among gay men because it took the pressure of a dating scenario out of the relationship. Even if they weren\u2019t necessarily seeking a dating relationship with whatever man they were interacting with, there\u2019s unspoken pursuit in interactions between straight men and women.<\/p>\n

N: Wow, it must be nice to spend time with a man and not have to worry that he\u2019s gonna hit on you or ruin the friendship!<\/p>\n

L: In scenarios in which gay men are selling to straight women, straight women are much more likely to trust them on their advice or tips that they give more than they would trust a straight man. Because there is no sexual expectation in this relationship, women don\u2019t fear a kind of alternative agenda that the gay man would possess. This aesthetic advice also goes for relationship advice; no gay man would try to sabotage a woman\u2019s relationship, less, I guess, he\u2019s also interested in that man. Women trust gay men on their advice because of the lack of a sexual relationship between the two.<\/p>\n

N: Maybe they assume gay men have more insight into the male psyche than a woman would, even if it is into a gay man\u2019s psyche.<\/p>\n

J: Well, you know, I think that makes a lot of sense. But, this sort of advice-giving relationship has actually been going on for a very long time. In 1886, Oscar Wilde wrote to one of his female colleagues \u201cany advice I can give to you is, of course, at your disposal\u201d. So we see that this advice-giving relationship is quite old. In fact, in the next year, when Wilde appointed editor of The Woman\u2019s World he gained even more influence over these budding proto-feminists who were trying to make it in the literary public sphere in a way that they hadn\u2019t in the decades previously. The Woman\u2019s World focused on the new woman, this middle or upper-class, educated woman who wanted to read serious articles alongside fiction and poetry as well as fashion and politics.<\/p>\n

N: But we all know that writing and politics are just for men right?<\/p>\n

J: Right! But these women were able to find a middle man in Oscar Wilde who negotiated between this heavily masculine public sphere and this budding femininity. Perhaps this was because Wilde was not as threatened by these sorts of proto-feminist movements and stirrings we were seeing at this time. But, even still, Wilde was a gate-keeper, and he did prevent some women from being able to become successful authors. And, in fact, many of these women turned on him following his trial where he was convicted on charges of sodomy. But, Ada “Sphynx” Leverson, who has been called the original \u201cfag-hag\u201d, stuck by Oscar for his entire life. She housed his children, and wrote to him throughout his final days. Contrary to popular perceptions, which view Oscar Wilde as having a exclusively homo-social environment, Wilde, in fact, had a rich bi-social environment where he was friends with many men and many women. But, because there is a frustratingly persistent tendency to erase women\u2019s stories, indeed, a lot of people want to see Oscar Wilde exclusively in relation to other men, and they don\u2019t include the import stories of women that contributed to his life.<\/p>\n

N: Oscar Wilde may have gotten his clout and aesthetic inspiration from women, but they have been left behind in the past. Similarly, we see male characters, stomping around on the screen, with less than a minute of interesting conversation left for women. Because of the dominating presence of men in media, therefore, women can only creatively express themselves in regards to this media using male characters, male terms, and male driven situations. However, the world of male characters creates a rich source for women to exercise their romantic fantasies. Mary Renaux was one of the first people to exploit this. She wrote popular homoerotic novels setting classical Greece, with main characters being strong, heroic, masculine men that still became emotionally vulnerable with each other, behind the scenes of the battlefield. The people who read, write, edit, and publish these stories are almost 100% women. Heterosexual women, in fact. That may seem counterintuitive at first, but these male characters are the only entry point available to women into their chosen fandom. Women still wanna see representations of healthy relationships with men, but because there are no female characters to imagine those characters with, and there is an archetypal tradition of a strong mythical male friendship already long existent in American fiction. These women just take these male friendships to their logical conclusion. It may not be that these women are particularly into male homosexual sex, but because they are seeking a man that is both hyper-masculine and sensitive, a man that can transcend the polarity of gender and create a relationship that\u2019s based in unity. In the real world, women can\u2019t find this equality, because men need to be led over a threshold of emotional vulnerability. They are unlikely to engage in emotional vulnerability with each other, not only because they might fear homosexuality, but because an intimate friendship requires a willingness to be vulnerable, that is often discouraged in American society. Women are socialized not to initiate relationships, and writing fanfiction is a way for them to use their creativity to experiment and investigate ways to move a friendship into a relationship with two ideal characters in an ideal world where there is no unequal sharing of responsibilities, no threat of children and a family, and they never have to deal with the problem of a partner being inferior in society. Similarly, when straight women are friends with gay men, they are also placed on a more equal social standing. They can see these men as emotionally vulnerable, but still fulfill their desire to be intimate with a male-bodied person, without the negatives of interacting with a man. Women can practice close relationships with men on their \u201cgay best friends\u201d. Similarly, women can project their fantasies of relationships onto gay men. The questions come up: are straight women projecting these qualities of effeminacy and emotional vulnerability onto gay men in the real world? Or, are they bonding over a real common ground? Is friendship with a gay man giving a woman what she isn\u2019t getting in here straight relationship? So, why not be friends with another woman? Why not get that emotional validation from another woman? Maybe it is the persistent drive to a male-bodied companion. Are they jealous of equality that gay men have in their relationships? All these conclusions would lead us to say that the \u201cfag-hag\u201d is a queer tourist, rather than a queer identity in her own right.<\/p>\n

J: When I was in middle-school, I desperately wanted a \u201cgay best friend\u201d. But, the one problem was, I didn\u2019t know any gay men. So, I picked the next best thing: a book sharing true tales of straight women and gay men, called Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys<\/em>. This book catalogs experiences of various gay men and their female counterparts told from both perspectives. In the first entry in this volume, Karen Rubinawitz compares her friendships with gay men to her friendships with straight women. She writes, \u201cIt\u2019s all about fashion. Yes, fashion. My gays and I share a bond that runs deep, and often into superficial subject matters, such as luxury labels, discussing what celebs wear, and Kate Moss obsessions. With girls, it\u2019s not the same. They don\u2019t let themselves go with the same reckless abandonment that men do. Of course, not all gay men care about the new collection of limited edition Marc Jacobs t-shirts, or channeling Dorothy Draper when doing their apartments, but such conversations are serious business akin to giving stock tips to Martha Stewart. Gays have also been there for every breakup, failure, and career mishap. It\u2019s just that the politics of fashion are different with my girlfriends. Even the ones who are, like me, in the industry. With women, there is an underlying competitiveness that doesn\u2019t exist with the gays. Whether we\u2019re covering the New York fashion shows, or hitting our favorite stores in search of yet another chic everyday black coat, I\u2019ve found that girls either secretly want your ass to look fat, or to one-up you. And, they always bring their baggage along for the ride. Girls don\u2019t just look at the way a dress fits you, they have to deliver a whole analysis about the way that it will fit your life. In \u201cFag-hags: the Laughter, the Tears, the Marabou, Simon Doonan recounts his experiences of being a young gay man in 1970s London: \u201cI once knew a fag-hag named Ginger. One day, she lost her mind and stuffed her fur coat in the oven, then she turned oven on high. It smelled horrible. The fur coat was destroyed, but Ginger wasn\u2019t. She eventually recovered. Fag-hags in 1970s London were resilient. They were young, and silly, and often drunk. Just like us fags. It all made perfect sense at the time. The smartest, most sensible thing you could do back then if you were a single, working-class girl was to get to get a job in a fag-rich environment, be it a hair salon, or a department store. Then, with the encouragement and support of your new coterie of fags. Fag-hags emerged from the working-classes; upper-class girls never became fag-hags. Why would they? Their idyllic lives were a montage of privilege, country houses, tweets, skirts, hunt balls, and dinner parties. No such guaranteed delights awaited a working-class girl. If she didn\u2019t watch out, she could easily find herself pulling entrails out of chicken\u2019s bums in a factory for the rest of her life. To avoid this fate, these women had to do something drastic. Becoming a fag-hag was something you did if life handed you a second-class ticket and you had a deep-seeded, unshakeable feeling that this was the wrong ticket, that you might be a lot more comfy if you were able to sneak into that tarted-up, squishy, velvet-draped, first-class carriage. For a girl with delusions, a little bit of imagination becoming a fag-hag was the only way to go. Life as a fag-hag was camp and fizzy and fun. You can jump on the sequined coattails of gay boys; gay boys who could cross socioeconomic boundaries. Gay boys could take you places, or at least make you feel that you might stand a chance in hell of going places. We 1970s gay boys were insanely more fun to be around, and unlike straight boys, we got invited to things. We knew about things. We knew about people.\u201d Simon Doonan continues, \u201cNevertheless, I had some odd experiences with women. There was a boring girl in a duffel coat called Leslie who used to pounce on me, and tell me she was madly in love with me, and that she was ready to leave her boyfriend. She was a specific genre, a gal who, out of the blue, randomly fell in love with a gay man, and pined for him, and stalked him. I never thought of those girls as fag-hags. I thought of them as idiots.\u201d Doonan concludes his story by asking, \u201cWill the fag-hag ever comeback? It\u2019s hard to imagine a scenario where her services will be required. The world has changed. Men, straight men, have become much less obnoxious over the last few years. Some are even a bit nelly. The whole metrosexual thing has improved conditions for straight gals and eliminated the need to go screeching around with a clack of ghettoized gay men. And gay men in big cities are no longer marginalized. Hanging out with gay boys is normal, and easy, and does not require the kind of full time commitment made by the great fag-hags of yore.\u201d<\/p>\n

N: Of course, fans have been writing stories about Holmes and Watson, Achilles and Patroclus, since way before the 1970s. But, Star Trek was the first fandom in which amateur stories written by fans were shared amongst fans. Before, people would write things calls \u201cdrawer-fics\u201d, or stories they would keep to themselves and not share with anyone else. But in the 1970s, Star Trek was able to grow such a large fandom because of the rise of fan-zines. These were amateur publications that solicited stories and then published them in a small paper magazine. Once the people that had already been writing these stories realized that there were other people who had this kind of interest, they realized that they could share what they were creating. Fan fiction with an explicitly homosexual relationship between the two characters is called \u201cslash\u201d, because of the slash symbol that would be put in between the two characters\u2019 names. The deep friendship between Kirk and Spock on the television show is what spawned these stories. As early as 1968, there were jokes about the two characters getting it on in fan-zines, but the real heyday of sexual fanfiction was in the 70s and the 80s, with the rise of the internet and websites like fanfiction.net. Writing and reading slash is more accessible than ever. Nightvisions is one of the earliest of Kirk\/Spock novels, written by Susan James, and Carol Frisbee. It was published in a zine entitled \u201cThrust\u201d in 1978, which was the first Kirk\/Spock anthology to be published. This section of the story demonstrates the intense intimacy and emotional depth written between the two men. Though fan fiction can be plot without porn, it\u2019s often a manifestation of women\u2019s desires for relationships as deep as the one they\u2019re writing about:\u00a0 \u201cThe bony ribcage rose and receded under his hands, in the rhythm of fast breathing. And he wondered in passing if it was in response to the strenuous exercise, or the surprise of his unexpected touch. The warmth emanating from the other\u2019s body pervaded his, and, on an impulse, he laid his head on the Vulcan\u2019s back, listening in intimate, secretive-sharing to the other\u2019s rapid intake of breath. He felt the unmistakable, unspoken response of muscles softening under his touch. The vibrations of his own body being absorbed by the other, and the unnamed sensation flowed through him, tightening his stomach in a painful knot. He did not know what it could mean. Did not care.\u201d These stories often center on one of the two characters not knowing what their feelings are, and then slowly melding into an intimacy, and discovering each other. This is a crucial fact because it demonstrates that these stories aren\u2019t written with the intention to highlight homosexuality, rather, the intentions are to highlight the intimate relationship: \u201cHe never knew, never believed he could become so close to another living being. They had always understood each other instinctively, yes, could almost read each other\u2019s minds. But, this was different. They was something in the constant physical closeness, a new intimacy. He felt as if his very body knew Kirk\u2019s. They were not separate entities any more. All those days and nights he had spent by Kirk\u2019s side, with his every drop of blood, every muscle, every breath holding, supporting, and circling the other, as if they had merged. His hands had grown accustomed to the touch of the other\u2019s skin. His eyes had learned to keep constant vigil on the other\u2019s face, reading his moods, wishes, unspoken needs. It was all new to him, a never before experience of openness and freedom. And to his surprise, he had found that intimacy oddly pleasing, and gratifying, that face, the one raising associations of security and warmth, was changing now in his mind, as though the pool of his memories reflected a new image. A human face, but not of soft femininity, a face of strength, and command, and compassion.\u201d This excerpt very clearly demonstrates that the ideal relationship for women is one where the man understands her, cares about her, is emotionally invested in ways that men stereotypically are not. This section also illustrates the need to stray away from the stereotypical femininity associated with gay men, and to emphasize strength and depth of their character.<\/p>\n

L: The relationships between straight women and gay men have psychological reasoning behind them. However, these relationships in real life are often tainted by ulterior motives by one or both parties. As we saw in Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys<\/em>, sometimes gay men will feel as though their \u201cfag-hag\u201d is an accessory that they can style or toy with or explore their femininity with. On the other side, sometimes women pursue gay men in an attempt to turn them the \u201cright\u201d or \u201cstraight\u201d way. Or, they pursue gay men in the hope that they will fall in love with the woman.<\/p>\n

J: Despite the genuine shared concern and bond of mutual affection that many gay men and straight women share, this relationship has become tainted by cultural forces and societal prejudices. Unfortunately, this relationship had become, not between individuals, but rather, a monolithic figure of the \u201cfag-hag\u201d who\u2019s associated with all this baggage, all of these cultural stereotypes.<\/p>\n

N: We ask: Is the \u201cfag-hag\u201d really worth salvaging? How genuine is a relationship that based on stereotypes, assumptions, and demands? Anyone of any sexuality, gender, or life-experience has the capacity for empathy and emotional connection. We need to separate sexuality and personality and evaluate human beings as they are.<\/p>\n

*Music*<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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